Here is another example of this stupid dpendance, where the Body Text color affect the Menu text colors and vice versa. Yes I can change Body text color to whatever, but then I have to do this for every single page, every block and element ! This absolutely makes no sense.

https://ibb.co/1G0zQQh

and here is another problem of the same type https://ibb.co/Jn7BmmY

and another problem - where I cannot select all colors because there is not enough margin to scoll all the way down.

https://ibb.co/0DkH80x

Hello Arthur

You can change the style for Header, Menu, Body separately in the Template Options -> Presets settings. https://prnt.sc/26ixb8a

Yes, not everything can be found on the template. You will require additional CSS. For example, you can use this CSS to Template Options -> Custom Code -> Custom CSS to change Blog List pagination and filter style.

.pagination .page-item .page-link{
    background: #000;
    color: #fff;
}
.filters select{
    background: #000;
    color: #fff;
}

Best regards

...Either provide some workaround...

Hi Arthur. The main advantage of Helix in front of other frameworks is that it has only basic settings for global variables and flexible work opportunities with CSS.

This approach allows to generate light and understandable HTML code. For any, new setting in the template interface, you pay the increase and complication of the DOM structure. That makes the site more resource-intensive and less flexible.

Of course, Helix has bugs, as in any other software. But these are not the bugs that you report. Helix updates are rare. Therefore, advice - do not waste time and nerves. If something is missing, just use CSS.

First of all basic Helix Ultimate is software for developers. Any developer is able to solve all problems independently. At least problems with appearance small details that are not in the settings. You should understand the concept of Helix and take it.

If you need settings for each little things, take a look at the "space ships" as Gantry. It has a cumbersome settings interface and complex code. Working with CSS is very difficult because of this.

Well, I caon only partially agree to this view. Perhaps if you would provide some konledge base with enough CSS code examples and allow users to pick samples and work with this it would be some kind of workaround but this is not available and me (myself as new user of this product) am completely lost and confused.

Especially when even simple things like naming the Page Body Text --- (just) "text" so new user has no idea what it applies to.

Why you are wrong about the complexity ? Simply because I have used THEMLER and ARTISTEER for many years and none of the things you mentioned was an issue adding complexity (to the developers of that software), despite I already used DOM technology. Those products were god until J4. They for some reson quit development (at least for now). Perhaps we got spoiled with those tools but I was able to setup 99,9% of everything visually and that cut down site development time by 70%. That is huge time saver. While SPB/Template is kinda time saver is it not as convenient.
Adding some extra classes does not build complexity, but would allow much better organization (instead so much of an inheritance).

I also use another tools doe PHP development which uses CSS and it has build in CSS editor where everything is done visually, which makes things ten times faster. Of course you can do everything in code but here we are interested in delivering the products no learning to code CSS/PHP/JS etc.

When someone is not familiar with the Joomla CSS , then you SPB CSS structure then he will be completely lost. PAsting pieces of code without understanding why/what for etc does not really help. IT is just a temporary work-around, where user will trip over next issues again and again and as a result will bother you - the support guys, then in turn you would waste huge amount of time dealing with each user separately.

One thing positive I can say about SPB team is that at least we (users) do not have to wait forever for replies (like it happens with the other products) and this has great value. That is the reason I haven't requested a refund, despite I am a bit dissatisfied with the Helix.

I tried Gantry template once and it wasn't to bad, but there was almost no Technical Support, so this was the reason I will never use it again.

Perhaps if you could provide more CSS documentation it would help. Also if you so oriented into CSS embeded into the template , then the template should provide much more places to inject that code. At the moment there are only 3 CSS hooks , which is rather a shame...

I would also like to see some setting to completely separate the template CSS from PAGE/Article CSS. This way user could setup pages without worying that they get affected (READ: messed up) by even small changes in template settings (which at the moment happened to me several times). This is absolutely unacceptable.

Finally I have to say this: Other support members) provided me at least 4-5 times CSS code to embeed and so far not even one sample worked :-(

Ofi Khan - I do not understand the purpose of your screenshot. That is the whole problem that some basic setting are missing and nobody knows where to find them. For example like Article Header Background. Perhaps you could create a video going through most typical issues, so then people would not ask you the same questions over and over. Pictures do not explain much.

If your template setup have had at least a CSS section for each itme (Header, Menu, Body etc.) then if would be much easied to deal with the CSS embeeds. The settings are also very inconsistent. For example the MENU settings are scattered in different locations. So these are things to consider in future update because in this stage I really DO NOT LIKE how your template is structured and how the settings screen looks like.

You could create a simple Q&A page in the form of:

"How to change (override) color of the Menu Heading"

1. do this
2. do that...
3. .......

Thanks for your feedback. As Pavel and I suggested, you can use Custom CSS in Custom Code -> Custom CSS section. Practically, it is not possible to change the template design as you recommend. However, we will try our enrich our documentation.

Why you say it is not possible to change the template design. You can leave HTML but you can enhance your CSS by new classes so they are separated from the Site BODY.

enhancing documentation is just a temporary workaround :-( The template at this stage is not really efficient or 100% usable because it creates to many additional issues where use can deal with each of them separately and that is huge waste of time and energy. Perhaps there were some mistekes made at the very beginning (or perhaps somebody else coded the template for you). It is not really the case. What is important that you cannot carry out those isuues endlessly because (A) you will loose customers (B) you waste more tmie with dealing and helping users (C) in the future sepceially with when more and more extensions will be converted to J$ you will simply drawn in problems and issues.
I know it is expensive and tedious to do those changes but sonned you do this it will pay off in the future. Otherwise with this template - as it is now - I do not see a bright future for SPB.

Better documentation of CSS will be helpful as workaround, until the template is rebuild.

I have used THEMLER and ARTISTEER for many years and none of the things you mentioned was an issue adding complexity (to the developers of that software), despite I already used DOM technology. Those products were god until J4. They for some reson quit development (at least for now).

Hi Arthur. THEMLER and ARTISTEER is not a templates - this is the whole difference. They generate code and do not set up the existing one.And by the way, make a very dirty code. As I mentioned - the more the settings are the worse the output code.

And they did not disappear. Now this is called Nice Page. I also did not like, like all their past products.

And just for understanding - I am not a member of the joomshaper team. I, as a user, too, was a newcomer in Helix. I figured out and understood it in two weeks. Without any questions. I think this is the best and most flexible of all templates-framework. And it is free

Of course it is not devoid of flaws. But be indulgent. The guys make excellent work.

Here is headings color settings

But not everything is in the settings. And those things that are not exist in settings, can be configured very simple through CSS. Find the desired item is also very easy through the code inspector. And it's easy, because the code is good and understandable, without garbage.

For example, Gantry code is a puzzle. But you have a million settings in which you can lose yourself :). Simple is always better

Hi Arthur, we use Helix for a very long time,

We have built more than 50 websites with this template - and everyone of them looks very different. Helix is one of the best and most flexible templates all around.

With some custom-css you can develope websites for every need and every design.

We've also tried a lot of other templates. But Helix is simply the best. And its free. Not to forget!

IF you are CSS expert it might be the best for you. If it is the best on the market ? I do not know I have only tried 2 oothers. Stating "?the best" for me might be the best what is available but it is also full of bugs and has tons of limitations. Site admins do not buy templates to program CSS/HTML. The reason I buy such tools is to speed up development. At this moment I am super slow and super frustrated.

Weather the template is fee OR not makes no difference for me. I would be glad to pay for the template that works vs. free one which doesn't. I have build many web apps and J sites using other tools and never had so much inconsistency with templates. Using ARTISTEER and THEMLER was a joy to work with and I am really sorry they do not offer those tools for J4. The difference with Helix and those tools was like night and day. Perhaps I got spoiled but HELIX is super inconvenient to use and poorly designed. Yes it is somewhat useful but it only meets around 50-60% of my expectations.

"I figured out and understood it in two weeks."

With YooTheme, I figured out how to use and fully implement my template in two days with only one bug.

Also, you fail to mention that after every Helix or SPPB update you need to go back to all the website to fix newly created bugs.

To make problems worse, new improvements simple create new bugs.

Additionally, the bugs we submit only get CSS fixes and the bugs remain in the code.

Currently, I have at leasst 5 or more reported bugs that got CSS fixes and the bugs have not been fixed in about 5 months and counting.

When I am talking about bugs, I am talking about website breaking bugs not minor cosmetic issues.

Have you looked at the issue being reported on the forum. They are major issues.

We are all on the same boat; we want to improve Helix and SPPB.

I agree 100%. What struck me completely is that on the the Support people asked me to go back and revert to PHP 7, while knowing PHP7 will end its life by the end of theyear 2022. IT is like asking a new car owner to drive on a first gear only (because the trasmission has some probme)! Completely insane.

I am trying to update SP Builder for 6 weeks and so far every update breaks my site to the point that I cannot use SPB at all (so I cannot edit any pages). I keep reverting to SPB 3.8.1 as this is the only version that works, but I am completely cut off from the updates (which possibly coudl fix other bugs).

Is is becoming more and more frustrating. I consider asking for a refund and goping with different tools because I do not really benefit from using SPB in a sense of getting things done quicker. On one hand SPB seems to be not to bad for what can be achieved in qwuick time, but once one get stuck on the bug he/she could waste tons and tons of time trying to fix simple issues.

Custenr version of the HELIX template looks like it is very very old jacket with tens of patches and despite it was patched here and there in general looks bad and in most cases is simply falling apart.

I suspect that 905+ of bugs and problems come not from the SPB but from the template. This is a mojor problem, because if the foundation of your house is bad there is no way you can build a strong and good looking house. Sonner or later will start cracking and falling down.

The template really, really needs a major update and without this update I do not see bright future for SPB. I think developers should update Helix and charge money for thouse who are interested in more stable software. I do not might to pay reasonable amount of $$ if it will fix the major problems and there is more logic in the template. I do not want to say the template is completely useless but the pint is that TEMPLATE+SPB supposed to save us time in finishing the site and at this moment whatever time I save using SPB I loose dealing with issues (in those two products).

To be honest at this moment I would not recommend anybody to purchase SPB until all tools are updated and the template is redesigned.

So you posted this

Yes, not everything can be found on the template. You will require additional CSS. For example, you can use this CSS to Template Options -> Custom Code -> Custom CSS to change Blog List pagination and filter style.

.pagination .page-item .page-link{ background: #000; color: #fff; } .filters select{ background: #000; color: #fff; }

Istated IT IS NOT WORKING and then it is all silent ???

I fix one color the another part of the site gets screwed up ! This is a nightmare ! https://ibb.co/LYX4drM

BLOG Category Pages do not inherit template color settings ! https://ibb.co/7SkPkTY

I AKSED THIS 3 TIMES https://ibb.co/7SkPkTY

Hi. Try to choose and configure the preset. Custom Style does not work as it should

I fix one color the another part of the site gets screwed up ! This is a nightmare ! https://ibb.co/LYX4drM

I never came across this. It looks like your mistakes. I could take a look to determine the reason if you can provide a public link.